A Chequer-Board of Nights and Days

Navigating The Scylla And Charybdis Of Love

Posted by Pejman Yousefzadeh on Sun Jan 08, 2006 at 05:32:23 PM EST

Behold the following from Andrew Sullivan:

Memo to straight guys: women like it when you call them up for no reason and chatter on.

Sullivan then links to Dan Savage who has more on the subject. Savage's commentary is interesting, but neither Savage nor Sullivan ever address the straight guys' dilemma.

Said dilemma is as follows: We find a lady. We like the lady. We want to call the lady because speaking to her/being with her/thinking about her allow chemicals to flow down established neural pathways that give us quite the pleasurable psychological sensation--akin to a drug high. A number of us straight guys would have no problem whatsoever engaging in the kind of "just chatting" behavior that Sullivan encourages and that Savage's lady correspondent laments is lacking in the males in her life. We find such activity highly enjoyable for the aforementioned reasons.

Here's the problem, however: Ladies like to play games. One of those games apparently is playing hard to get on the phone. Now, to be sure, men like playing games as well and since men are not oftentimes as verbal as ladies like them to be, games don't even have to be played to (inadvertently) mess with a lady's mind. But the traditional male compulsion to remain relatively Stoical and silent along with the fear that the ladies are wrapping us around their lovely fingers with "will she call me/will she not?" phone games compel us to be relatively shy in the conversation department.

Want to have a few of us break out of our shells? Then stop playing games! I know this won't universally solve the problem of eradicating the Stoical Man that so many ladies appear to object to and I know that there will remain plenty of men who decide to continue toying with the psyches of their ladies. But if you want those of us who thrive on the give-and-take of intellectually stimulating verbal repartee--which could lead to other kinds of fun--to give vent to our desire to shoot the breeze with you, charm you out of your skins, then meet us halfway. Call us when you say you will. If you are glad to speak to us and you enjoy the experience, say so without making us have to jump through one hoop after another. We men like suspense and mystery as much as you do, but there is a fine line between suspense and tortuous madness the likes of which should have been outlawed by the Geneva Conventions decades ago.

This is my plea: Help us help you. Otherwise, enough with the complaining. If your philosophy is going to be that playing hard to get on the phone is acceptable because all is fair in love and war, then don't have the temerity to object when we place our own artillery on the high ground and fire back. Conversations are supposed to be a two-way street, after all.

If this post doesn't excite the hate mailers, nothing will.

UPDATE: Okay, so not much hatemail. But I probably should clarify a few things . . .

For one thing, it was probably silly for me to seem to call for a complete moratorium on any and all game-playing. Both men and women need to treat themselves as currency in the dating game and that means possessing a sense of mystery and preventing overexposure. Fine. I can definitely go along with that and it would be foolish to think that there will or even should be complete transparency. At the same time, there is such a thing as overdoing it, and when the game-playing is overdone, then it gets silly. Men certainly want women not to push it, and of course, women can make the same complaint about men.

Repeat: Women and men play games to excess. Each can be found to be at fault in a unique fashion and each has some legitimate general gripes about the other. Please do not read this post as placing blame entirely on one side because that was never my intention.

In the end, my major complaint with the Savage article is that it never took game-playing into account in any way while analyzing the "why doesn't he call" question. The failure to address game-playing is what prompted me to write. Whether we like it or not, we have to admit that there are certain strange rituals that we go through in the courtship process. These rituals have their own logic and to an extent, they are defensible. When they are overemphasized, trouble begins in a major way. That Savage chose not to address this issue led me to believe that his commentary was incomplete. Of course, Savage's commentary was humorous, so perhaps he chose simply to skirt the issue since addressing it may have taken away from the humor. But I am not a mindreader, so I can't be certain about that.

Enough of this. I am going to write about something less controversial. Maybe the Middle East peace process . . .

< Everything In The World Is The Fault Of Your Least Favorite Politician | Touring Egypt And Coming To Terms With Mubarak >
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Re: and what's more... (none / 0) (#1)
by Dave J on Sun Jan 08, 2006 at 11:22:11 PM EST

Memo to Sullivan and Savage: you appear to be entirely clueless about the fact that women usually don't react in the same ways to the same behavior on the part of straight men as they might from gay male friends, who in many cases they regard as far more "harmless" even than other women. 

And then after she says what a wonderfully sensitive nice guy and great friend you are, she'll cry on your shoulder about how what she really wants is a mysterious man with "danger" or something else equally asinine.

Er, um, or so I'm told, and at least I'm not bitter. ;-)



Oh please (none / 0) (#2)
by sara on Mon Jan 09, 2006 at 03:42:38 PM EST

The fact that women are inconsistent with their calling policy is because women are not all the same person.  It's not a game when one woman is easier to get ahold of than another woman.  If you can't get ahold of a woman you'd like to talk to, you can't get ahold of her.  If you get sick of trying, stop trying to call her. 
 

There is no conspiracy.



Can't speak for the other ladies, but... (none / 0) (#3)
by Wacky Hermit on Mon Jan 09, 2006 at 03:46:35 PM EST

I personally wouldn't want a man who could be my girlfriend.  If I wanted a girlfriend to shoot the breeze with, I'd call up a girlfriend.  When I call up a man my husband, I call him because I have a computer problem, need to let him know what's for dinner, need to give directions for picking up kids, or I want to let him know I want to have sex tonight.  He is very good at fixing computers, being pleased with the dinners I cook, picking up kids, and having sex. When I need an expert in any of these, I call the expert-- my man.  When I want an expert listener, I call a girlfriend.  Fortunately for me, I don't need that girlfriend stuff all that much.

I do think that most women who complain that men aren't their girlfriends really don't want a man who would be their girlfriend as their male companion. Why? because they continue to not choose such men, even as they kvetch about the Stoical Men they choose.  This is a character flaw in the women, not something wrong with the men.  If you take a man as your companion, you damn well better take him for who he is, not for who you wish he could be.

And now I'm curious: do lesbians complain that their partners don't listen like girlfriends? 



listening lesbians (none / 0) (#5)
by syzygywell on Mon Jan 09, 2006 at 11:23:41 PM EST

In answer to your query, "Do lesbians complain that their partners don't listen like girlfriends?" I would say, "Sometimes and Not Really", depends on the woman.  I've had some girlfriends that listen like my friends and some who clatter on about themselves like a high school teenager. (I axed them after several dates) Overall there are generalizations about the sexes and sexual preferences that tend to be true or they wouldn't be generalized about.  That being said, my two best friends are men, one straight and one gay and they are both terrific listeners that genuinely like women.  Obviously, though, I'm not involved with them. 

 
My partner on the other hand is one of my very best friends, listens well, sometimes calls me too often (to talk about nothing although she says its to hear my voice), and has never played one game with me.  (Although, in all fairness, I occasionally get insomnia at 2 am whilst pontificating about the state of the world and the soul of its inhabitants & to her credit she doesn't get cross but sleepily tolerates my dark night of the soul moments.)

 So yes my girlfriend listens even better than some of my girlfriends and that is one of the reasons I asked her to "civil union" me.



[ Parent ]
no conspiracy (none / 0) (#4)
by pst314 on Mon Jan 09, 2006 at 10:37:26 PM EST
Er, who said anything about a conspiracy?  If we men too often behave in ways inconsistent with what we say (if we really value intelligence and personality, then why do so many of us only date very pretty young women?) then it should be no surprise that women can have their own inconsistencies.

smell the roses (none / 0) (#6)
by girl on Thu Jan 12, 2006 at 09:20:28 PM EST
if a woman doesn't call you back she is most likely not playing a game. she probably has little interest in talking to you. one of the ways you can tell if a woman is worth pursuing is if she responds positively to your social advances. some guys think when you say no you really mean yes. this is a guy thing. why not skip the assumptions and just go on a persons actions. If a woman is playing games with you it saves you a lot of time in the long run. red flag , do not proceed. good luck

interesting book noted by Instapundit (none / 0) (#7)
by pst314 on Wed Jan 18, 2006 at 01:58:06 PM EST
Pejman:  Instapundit notes an interesting and perhaps relevant book:

From http://instapundit.com/archives/028084.php 

"IN THE MAIL: A copy of Norah Vincent's Self-Made Man: One Woman's Journey into Manhood and Back. It's basically a Male Like Me book -- she disguised herself (rather convincingly) as a man named "Ned," lived that way for several months, and writes about what she learned....It's hardly surprising, then, that in this atmosphere, as a single man dating women, I often felt attacked, judged, on the defensive. Whereas with the men I met and befriended as Ned there was a a presumption of innocence -- that is, you're a good guy until you prove otherwise -- with women there was quite often a presumption of guilt: you're a cad like every other guy until you prove otherwise...It was enough to make me want to read the whole thing (and to be glad I'm not single!), and I did, at one sitting, last night. I think the book's terrific, and it's going to make a huge splash. Helen's now grabbed it, and she agrees so far. We're going to try to get Vincent on for a podcast interview next week."



Regards (none / 0) (#8)
by Carson busses on Thu Jul 22, 2010 at 04:19:03 AM EST

For one thing, it was probably silly for me to seem to call for a complete moratorium on any and all game-playing. Both men and women need to treat themselves as currency in the dating game and that means possessing a sense of mystery and preventing overexposure.

 

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